Tying-in stocks

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Driftwood
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Tying-in stocks

Post by Driftwood » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:36 pm

I'm looking for a few tips on the best way of tying-in the stocks to a new bag e.g. the best type of knots to use and how to tie-off etc. Any links to instructional stuff like video tutorials would be much appreciated.

outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:58 am

If I had to do this I wouldn't use knots. I would get some kind of very strong thread - like fishing line with a high breaking strain. Then I would make a gasket to first fit around the stock at the tyining on point, from a strip of leather if you prefer - though rubber is much better for gaskets. Then when tying in the bag I would use a 'tournakey' of some kind to get the thread to really bit down tightly and so make a good airtight seal by compression with the gasket. When a really tight twist has been made - secure the twist with a strong metal clamp - the kind that can be pressed together with pliers. Then trim the excess thread and the bag should be fully airtight and good to go.

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DMQuinn
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by DMQuinn » Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:45 am

outofthebox wrote:If I had to do this I wouldn't use knots. I would get some kind of very strong thread - like fishing line with a high breaking strain. Then I would make a gasket to first fit around the stock at the tyining on point, from a strip of leather if you prefer - though rubber is much better for gaskets. Then when tying in the bag I would use a 'tournakey' of some kind to get the thread to really bit down tightly and so make a good airtight seal by compression with the gasket. When a really tight twist has been made - secure the twist with a strong metal clamp - the kind that can be pressed together with pliers. Then trim the excess thread and the bag should be fully airtight and good to go.
Have you done this? How did it work out? Were there issues with the "fishing line"? What sort of metal clamp did you use? Any photos?

outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:33 am

I made my bag from butyl rubber sheet and tied in the stocks using hose clips. I made the gaskets from rubber strips to give a good rubber on rubber compression seal. I have suggested fishing line because I am assuming that the bag being fitted is a traditional leather one - but I haven't done this myself. But if I had to this is the method I would use with the aim of getting as tight a compression seal as possible. I think that the trade name for the kind of metal clamps I envisaged is cord clips - illustration here.

http://www.ckmetal.com.hk/cordclip.html

MickBauer
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by MickBauer » Fri Sep 05, 2014 3:27 pm

When I re-tied-in the stocks on my C# set a couple of years ago I used ordinary leatherworker's Nyltex cord (paraffin-soaked nylon cord I believe), and tied the stocks in without any gaskets; rubber, leather or otherwise. The bag is made of gasket material -- leather -- so it seals around the stocks fine all by itself.

I tied the two ends of the wrap together with a very exotic and complicated number known as a "square knot." ;-) I like Nyltex because (1) it compresses (and then re-expands slightly) in a way that doesn't seem to lend itself to slipping open; and (2) I've got loads of it laying around, from reedmaking.

I've gone two years with no stock-leaking. If/when a mount does loosen, it will take maybe 10 minutes to re-tie by this method. But I suspect there are many, dearly-held, opinions on how to do this. Seems to me that anything that holds the mounts in without leakage is a good method. :-)

Cheers,
Mick

outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:03 am

Yes - if it works it works 8) .

My thinking on bag connections is this - if I wouldn't trust them to be waterproof, then I'm certainly not going to have confidence that they will be airtight. A good way to check if a bag is fully airtight at the stocks is to put stoppers in the drone and chanter stocks and fill the bag right up with air. Then squeeze the bag while moving your lips around the point where the bag connects to the stock. This is a good way to feel any tiny leaks of air escaping as the jet of air will feel cold on your lips. Even with my rubber on rubber seals, I had to go back and retighten the hose clips after checking a few days later to get the stocks absolutely airtight.

Some might think this is overkill, because a certain amount of air will be escaping from other parts of the instrument anyway, but I reckon that if the bag at least is airtight then I will have much less work to do with the bellows to maintain the playing pressure through to the reeds.

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Mr.Gumby » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:08 am

because a certain amount of air will be escaping from other parts of the instrument anyway.
if your pipes are properly made, finished and looked after, they should not leak.
I will have much less work to do with the bellows to maintain the playing pressure through to the reeds.
Anyone using their bellows to maintain playing pressure REALLY should enroll themselves forthwith in piping bootcamp to review and re-learn their most basic piping techniques.
My brain hurts

outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:16 am

Now then Mr Gumby - calm yourself... :lol:

Maintaining the pressure at just the right level for the reeds requires a good, steady reservoir of air within the bag. Otherwise there will be serious peaks and troughs in pressure, which the player must work harder to overcome. The more airtight the bag the easier it will be for the player to maintain that pressure. It's a simple point really, but an important one I think.

On the point about leakage elsewhere on the instrument, we should consider that the chanter is effectively open a lot of the time, even for the tightest fingered plpers. So a certain amount of pressure is always being lost downstream of the chanter reed. The drones of course are constantly leaking pressure. But for me the aim is to not to be losing pressure in the connection between the bag and the reeds. Again I think the point is quite a simple one.

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DMQuinn
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by DMQuinn » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:09 am

outofthebox wrote:Now then Mr Gumby - calm yourself... :lol:

Maintaining the pressure at just the right level for the reeds requires a good, steady reservoir of air within the bag. Otherwise there will be serious peaks and troughs in pressure, which the player must work harder to overcome. The more airtight the bag the easier it will be for the player to maintain that pressure. It's a simple point really, but an important one I think.

On the point about leakage elsewhere on the instrument, we should consider that the chanter is effectively open a lot of the time, even for the tightest fingered plpers. So a certain amount of pressure is always being lost downstream of the chanter reed. The drones of course are constantly leaking pressure. But for me the aim is to not to be losing pressure in the connection between the bag and the reeds. Again I think the point is quite a simple one.
班门弄斧

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the plod
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by the plod » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:05 pm

David, did you mean to post in chinese?

iain allen
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by iain allen » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:17 pm

the plod wrote:David, did you mean to post in chinese?
See here.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/班门弄斧/
or
Chinese Idiom.
班门弄斧

show off one's inferior talent or skill in front of an expert.


Iain

outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:43 am

Crouching Piper Hidden Drone Switch... 8)

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Mr.Gumby » Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:37 am

Crouching Piper Hidden Drone Switch.
The First Law of Holes. Image

Image
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Driftwood
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Driftwood » Sat Sep 13, 2014 5:42 am

Thanks everyone:- a few things to chew-on there. In the meantime I've found one or two videos, including one by David Daye which includes lots of detail. However, he is tying into a vinyl bag and uses blu-tack in the stock grooves and elsewhere. I'm thinking that for a leather bag some kind of soft wax would be better, but I don't really know.

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Mr.Gumby » Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:17 am

You should be able to tie in the stock without needing messy stuff inside the joints.

The stocks on my set are tied in with (I think) the same stuff Mick mentioned above (it's sold at shipping supply shops), strong, flattened and (very) slightly flexible nylon thread. Never had any problems or leakage in the joints during 28 years of playing that set.
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