Tying-in stocks

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tompipes
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by tompipes » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:35 pm

Years ago I was replacing the bag on a Des Seery set. The part of the stock that goes into the neck of the bag had a slight half moon grove turned into it and a sheet of cork glued to it.
I did the same but I'd no cork so I glued a piece of leather all the way around the stock and tied it up. Air tight the first time.

Tommy

outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Mon Sep 15, 2014 4:49 am

Good move Tommy 8). Those who seek to achieve and retain a really good seal will fit a gasket of some kind around the stock. Leather will work, but rubber is best of all. Ask any plumber.

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Mr.Gumby » Mon Sep 15, 2014 5:03 am

Ask any plumber.
During the early eighties a number of pipemakers used plumbing connections, heavy brass screw-in connections on heavy duty rubber bags. Those were far from trouble free and represented a standard of workmanship few of us who experienced it first hand will want to go back to.
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wooff
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by wooff » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:15 am

For someone who plays their Pipes almost everyday, and often for hours on end as Mr.Gumby does , for 28 years with no leaks where the stocks are tied-in... says it all for a Leather to Wood seal with a tightly bound strong chord... no need for any intermediary 'gasket' layer.

My own bag has given no problems in this department these 34 years past... the longevity of a joint like this should be enough for most people!!

Geoff.

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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by tompipes » Mon Sep 15, 2014 1:25 pm

For someone who plays their Pipes almost everyday, and often for hours on end as Mr.Gumby does , for 28 years with no leaks where the stocks are tied-in... says it all for a Leather to Wood seal with a tightly bound strong chord... no need for any intermediary 'gasket' layer.

My own bag has given no problems in this department these 34 years past... the longevity of a joint like this should be enough for most people!!
I agree. I've never even heard of a bag leaking at that point in my 30 years playing.
The only thing I will say is that I find that a layer of leather on the stock makes for a very tight seal (leather to leather to wood) and, more importantly for me,
it's easier on the hands, twine doesn't snap and I'm not pulling work benches around the room trying to get a good tight binding on the joint.

Did I read somewhere that the auld lads used to put a bit of beeswax or something like that on the bag where it's tied in. Not so much to seal leaks but to make the leather less stiff, more supple to ensure a tight binding?

Tommy

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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by wooff » Mon Sep 15, 2014 2:13 pm

Yes Tommy,

I do use a wee bit of beeswax and olive oïl mixture as a grease to lubricate the leather so as to be able to slide the stocks into place. The old bags were seasoned with something similar so they were slippy on the insides when freshly done, proir to tie-ing in.

Geoff.

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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:25 am

The only thing I would add is that a bag may not feel that it is leaking air, but when you actually put it to the test it isn't completely airtight. This applies to all forms of tying-in. As I have suggested - a good way to test this out is to fit stoppers in the drone and chanter stocks and fill the bag. Then hold the stock connections up to your mouth and move it around close to your lips, while squeezing the bag. If there is a tiny leak, the jet of air will feel cold against your lips. The amount of air being lost in this way is of course negligible. But the loss of pressure in this area might be more significant. So if it can be eliminated completely, however that is achieved, then that must be preferable set up.

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Mr.Gumby » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:41 am

My bags stand the test recommended by Mr. Wooff. You plug the exits, fill the bag and then sit on it for five minutes. If it doesn't go down during that time, you're fine. My bags are fine.
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djm
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by djm » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:44 am

Mr. Gumby is famous for sitting on his bag. You would do well not to argue with him about this. ;)

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outofthebox
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:28 am

This topic has been aired :wink: - in the spirit, I trust, of open discussion of the issues.

tompipes
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by tompipes » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:37 am

Well I wouldn't recommend putting that much weight on a new bag.

In the late 80's I got my first hand stitched leather bag from Tom Meehan. There was great excitement and to show off the strength of the double stitching and pipers were invited (not by me) to stand on the inflated bag. Eventually it leaked and had to be fixed.
You wouldn't hit a chanter with a hammer to display it's strength would you? Or stand on a hollow mainstock?

If you really want to test a bag for airtightness, inflate it and put a phone book on it overnight.

Tommy

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PJ
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by PJ » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:02 am

From David Daye's website:

Image
PJ

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by Mr.Gumby » Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:13 am

Well I wouldn't recommend putting that much weight on a new bag.
Well, no maybe not but my bags aren't new and it's not something I' make a habit out of doing, so I am OK. The point remains, connections do not leak as a matter of course. Unless you have your stocks tied in poorly.

I went to see Dan Dowd in 1980 about a bag. He took me into the kitchen, got a bag from the workshop and inflated the bag, plugged it and then jumped on it. It was a vinyl bag and it held just fine. One spot in the seam did come apart within a few weeks and I had to keep re-gluing that little spot, about an inch of it, every fortnight or so until I replaced the set.
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Re: Tying-in stocks

Post by outofthebox » Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:01 am

That's why I recommend the 'lips' test. It's easy to do and gives an instant result. Just a gentle squeeze of the fully inflated bag is required, so no risk of damaging the seams.

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