Wide reed won't seal on edges??

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bobkeenan
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Wide reed won't seal on edges??

Post by bobkeenan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:09 pm

I have gotten to the point now where I can fairly reliably make a copy of one of Brad Angus reeds. They are not quite as good but they are close.

So I thought I would try something different.

I was intrigued by the Liam O'flynn Rowsome concert D Reed. I found a few references on the internet. What I ended up making was a slip that was 110mm x 13.4mm with a max thickness of 1.4mm. I tried one on a sanding block that was 58mm in dia and another on a 53mm dia. I saw a couple of references that said 70mm (but did not have one) and 56mm. I gouged the tails down to about .025" thickness. The staple was rolled 20 gauge cooper. The blank was about 13mm x 14.5mm x 57mm. The finished eye was about 1.3mm high. The largest ID, on the other end was about 4.5mm. My tails were cut straight from about 25mm from the end straight to end of the slip. I wrapped it with a pre-wrap and then a second tighter wrap to about 2-3 mm beyond the end of the staple in the reed.

The reed does not seal from about 4mm beyond the winding to about 10mm before the end of the reed. The first one was on both sides. The second was on one side. After the first one I took the staple out and filed down the flats more thinking that this would pull the slips in harder..... did not work. The second reed was done with the smaller sanding block. Note that on my brad angus reeds I use slips widths of 11.8-12mm with a staple ID of 3.8mm and a sanding block around 45mm, no gouging. Those reeds close up tight as a drum.

BTW in both cases above I used superglue to seal the edges (was recommend in one sours). The seal worked like a champ but the reeds behave very stiff and strange and I could not get any useable results.

So here are some hints.... any common reason for the reed not closing up. I was thinking that tail shape, gouging, and sanding block could all be part of the problem.

bobkeenan
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Real Name: Robert Keenan
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Re: Wide reed won't seal on edges??

Post by bobkeenan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:36 pm

another thought....

I dissembled the reed and took a long look and how things match up. On thing I noticed is that the reed was sort of deforming in on itself and the other slip in the last few mm of tail angle before it goes parallel. I was wondering if this could be creating a fulcrum that would want to pull the reeds apart. So I shaved the tail in those areas were the tails met and deformed.
IMG_0248.jpg
rough scketch
IMG_0248.jpg (96.21 KiB) Viewed 4535 times

At least with my fingers holding it together the reed tightness looked better and I saw no gaps?

I was also thinking that if I did not gouge for the staple it may also improve the reed seals.

Thoughts?

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Alan
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Re: Wide reed won't seal on edges??

Post by Alan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:41 pm

Hi Bob,

I think I might be able to help here. Firstly, if you are making a copy of a good, working reed (not much point copying anything else!), you have to take in to account that the reed head widens as the reed is made. So, if I make a reed that ends up with a 13mm wide head, it's most likely to have had a slip that started at 12.8mm.

Also, the former that you use to sand/form the slip will dictate a lot too. if you use a narrow former, then, more often than not with a wide reed, you have to cramp the reed down a little more than normal to achieve optimum closure. Personally, I would only really look at using anything below 65mm diam former for a concert pitch reed with a slip of 12.5mm or less. In your case with a wider than usual normer head width, I would be erring nearer 80mm to get a slip that would close, have the right thickness, and achieve good response and tuning.

If you are cutting 'straight from about 25mm from the end straight to end of the slip', that also may cause the sides to open when binding. Smoothing the corners/shoulders helps, but trying to make a 'ski slope' of the tails to create the classic bottle neck shape is even better, as it helps to dissipate tension up the reedhead as it is tied. Gouging the tail (too deep?) also adds to the problem when tying up, particularly if the tail profile is to 'sharp'

As for gluing sides to make them staunch... I wouldn't do it, as it makes things too rigid. flexibility is an important part of a well behaved reed, and if you fix things too hard in place, the become erratic...

I hope this makes sense!

edit: just saw your addendum.. I'm pretty sure, if you're getting that crushing at the tails, then a little less gouging at the tail and shaping the tails more carefully will help a lot!!

bobkeenan
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Re: Wide reed won't seal on edges??

Post by bobkeenan » Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:03 pm

Very helpful... Thanks
:mrgreen:

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