Flat high E F and G

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brassnebony
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Real Name: Eddie Nolan

Flat high E F and G

Post by brassnebony » Wed May 30, 2012 12:48 am

Hi,
Iv a Geoff wooff narrow bore d chanter it's Playing nice but the High E F G are playing flat!
Could anyone advise me on adjustment for this?
Also has anyone altered geoffs reed dimensions and gotten any good results iv been doIng some experimentation
Thanks
Eddie
"I'll dance with the gypsy"

outofthebox
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by outofthebox » Wed May 30, 2012 4:59 am

Try a wider staple - a bigger volume inside the staple will sharpen the second octave relative to the first. Experimentation will get you there 8)

billh
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by billh » Wed May 30, 2012 3:14 pm

Geoff's narrow bore D requires quite a short head, which should raise the second octave a bit as well as keep the back d sufficiently high. I wouldn't immediately change the staple size or head width from what Geoff already provided - use Geoff's reed as a model there. I believe that it requires quite a light reed to work well, and from a recent conversation with Derek Gleeson, it seems he concurs.

- Bill

brassnebony
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 8:10 am
Real Name: Eddie Nolan

Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by brassnebony » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:47 am

I have gotten handwritten notes from Geoff on how to make the reeds!
Mick obrien also suggested to make a reed with a wider staple!
Whether or not it works what is the logic behind this? More air flow? Would this also
Give the chanter extra volume?
Thanks for the replies!
"I'll dance with the gypsy"

Philipp
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by Philipp » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:13 am

Off course staple dimensions, head length and width have an influence, but I think that scraping can help a lot (to a certain extent, but there are cases where you just can't scrape anymore...viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1367), and you can easily dose it in small rates and see what happens.
When I start scraping a new reed, the upper octave and the back D are always too sharp relatively, coming down with further scraping of the reed. When the lower end of the scrape is scraped too much, these notes will be flat in relation to the rest. Normally I then cut off half a millimeter from the lips of the reed (bringing up the notes in question in relation to the rest, but also the whole pitch of the reed) and scrape the upper area again (because this reverses the effect of the reed getting stronger from cutting the lips). My general experience is that scraping in the upper area of the reed head mainly influences response and hardness, whereas scraping down in the bridle area mainly influences pitch (mainly of back D and the upper octave, but also overall) and volume.
These experiences are made with a Rogge chanter and reeds with sound chamber, so it would be good to hear if other people could confirm this for other types of chanters as well.

Cheers,
Philipp

outofthebox
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by outofthebox » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:30 am

Yes - larger internal volume of the staple will create higher pitch and louder sound. So staple experimentation is very important in striving to achieve a sound from your chanter that you like. So all of the elements - the size of the eye, how much to flatten for tying on, length of the staple and internal diameter all have an influence on how the chanter will play. Remember that there is no 'perfect' reed for a chanter - so aim to make reeds which bring you closer to the chanter sound which you personally wish to create.

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by Mr.Gumby » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:33 am

Remember that there is no 'perfect' reed for a chanter - so aim to make reeds which bring you closer to the chanter sound which you personally wish to create.
I would suggest otherwise. The chanter in question was designed to achieve a particular sound and volume. It was designed with a particular type of reed in mind. And it will perform it's best within the parameters to which it was designed. Some variation will be achievable but it is not a blank canvas that can be made to produce completely different soundscapes by inserting different types of reeds into it.
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billh
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by billh » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:29 am

I agree with Mr. Gumby on this one. While there is a (small) bit of latitude for personal preference, chanter and reed must be suited to one another.

The larger staple isn't a matter of "air flow", and it really shouldn't influence loudness/volume. The staple is acoustically an extension of the chanter bore, and thus its internal dimensions are critical to the tuning and performance of the chanter. The other aspects of reed geometry are also important, such as head width, length, lip aperture, and staple eye. If you deviate in one aspect, you must compensate in others in order to preserve tuning, and there is no guarantee that the result will be well-behaved.

LiamO'Flynn
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by LiamO'Flynn » Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:53 am

Mr.Gumby wrote: Some variation will be achievable but it is not a blank canvas that can be made to produce completely different soundscapes by inserting different types of reeds into it.
Is this a flaw with all narrow bore chanters or just Wooff chanters

Liam
Liam O'Flynn the plumber not the piper .

outofthebox
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by outofthebox » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:04 am

As Bill says above there is a small - though I would say significant - amount of latitude in tweaking a reed model to suit the wishes of an individual piper, particularly in relation to the balancing of the first to the second octave. All I would say is don't be afraid to experiment with your reeds in seeking a sound that you like.

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Mr.Gumby
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Re: Flat high E F and G

Post by Mr.Gumby » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:42 am

Is this a flaw with all narrow bore chanters or just Wooff chanters
I don't think there's a flaw. Any chanter and reed need to match closely to work as they were intended. Any good maker will design a system to work it's best in a particular way and to a particular aesthetic (although with regards to Geoff's D chanters the idea has evolved over time and the latest version of the design, a third generation NBD, is considerably different from the earlier ones). For example: try as you might there's no way you're going to get a narrow bore D chanter to sound even remotely like a Rowsome type chanter if that's what you like. To suggest otherwise is just ignorant folly.
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