Poll Please or your comments

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David Stephenson
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Poll Please or your comments

Post by David Stephenson » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:15 pm

Please could the members tell us, how many do or do not have a rush of any kind, tape etc fitted to their chanters, barring a roll/ream of paper in the bottom D.

I'm trying to build a bigger picture as to how, when and how long this practice has been running/going for, who first introduced it and
how many other makers and players are still relying on it for fine tuning their instruments.

How they find the tuning and handling of their instrument with a selection of different reeds they have, is it needed with every reed made by themselves or whoever, why some need it and some don't, does this make scense.

I'm not obsessing on anything, just asking a simple question, which many others might also be interested in too, the people with such instruments are the ones with all the answers.

At the end of any debate there are normally some good answers, or do we simply take what we are told as gospel.

Davy.


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Last edited by David Stephenson on Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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krusty
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Post by krusty » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:52 pm

Hello Davy
you seem to be obsessed with the whole taping and rushing of chanters thing ,whats the deal ?


Krusty
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David Stephenson
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Post by David Stephenson » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:46 pm

Hi Krusty

I have ammended this message, which I should have made a bit clearer you can now see these questions in my first posting.
Davy.
Last edited by David Stephenson on Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by PJ » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:57 pm

Hi Davy,

To answer your questions:

Rush in chanter - Yes, from the bell to between the G and A toneholes.
Rush in reed - On 1 of my 3 current favourite reeds because the 2nd octave G and A were too high.
Blutac in tone holes - yes, the F# hole and occasionally on the back D (depending on which reed I use)
Tape - No. I don't like the feel of electrical tape or the look of surgical tape. Anyway, with all the rest, I don't need it!!

Hope this helps.
PJ

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Post by Bill » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:52 pm

No rushes in chanter or reed. Poster putty in back D since I hate tape also.
Bill

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Post by djm » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:23 am

I have no rushes in any of my chanters (Joe Kennedy B,C,D). On my D, I sometimes need to flatten the back-D, depending on the relative humidity. I use tape for this, since it is only a temporary measure.

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Last edited by djm on Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by KevinCorkery » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:30 am

V-shaped bridle up the bell for the Hard D and recently wax on the back d hole to flatten the pitch. Rush up the bell has been there since I recieved it from the maker.

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Post by Jim » Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:55 am

I've got a rush from top to bottom in the chanter. I've made a few reeds such that the chanter did not need a rush. That being said though, the reed that requires the rush in the chanter provides the best sound/balance with my drones. Very few adjustments are required to this reed during weather changes so I leave it and the rush in. The reed is almost five years old and going strong.

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Post by krusty » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:09 pm

Hello Davy
your amended post makes it clearer,are you doing some kind of historical research ?
The fine tuning of woodwind instruments in general is not a new thing . Makers have been putting tuning wax and undercutting holes and putting slivers of wood into the bore from probably since they first made instruments.
No instrument plays the same way when different people play it so hence the need for fine tuning. Hope this helps .

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Post by Monteverdi » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:10 pm

Two obvious categories would be temporary tuning devices and those that are needed all the time. I have a Tayloresque chanter with a steep bore and it seems to need a permanent rush. I have two reeds that make it play near concert pitch and two that make it play around A452 (where it seems to be happier) all with the same rush in place. It may be possible with the right reed to reduce or totally dispense with the rush at the higher tuning but I havn't tried that yet.

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Post by David Stephenson » Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:39 pm

krusty wrote:Hello Davy
No instrument plays the same way when different people play it so hence the need for fine tuning. Hope this helps .Krusty
Historical reaserch it is not, I am quite aware of what is and isn't done in the past and today with tuning aids, your posting has not helped me in any way,

It is fact that no tuning aids are needed in the Hunter pattern which we all use, bar sometimes a small ream of paper in the bell, Peter's design has been like this for over 20 years now.

You could ask Potts, McCarty, Browne, Crossin, Nakatsui, Carroll, and many more who have all used or use this design,

I do not agree with you on any of the latter points of tuning because there are several makers, including, and his students who will also say the same, who all make an instrument which have no tuning aids in them and never need them, they all play in tune with any player at the helm, the only difference if any is the style of the player.

I don't want to get into a debate with you, all I ask is the same question, do you have or play a set of pipes with a rush etc in it.

Regards

Davy.
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krusty
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Post by krusty » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:15 pm

Sorry there Davy I misunderstood the question.
The chanter I'm playing doesn't have any tuning aids at the moment ,but thats not to say it wont ever, I dont think you can say that about any chanter anyway,especially as its the reed thats going to put off the tuning not the chanter .
It seems pipers dont care if a chanter needs a rush or not or any other tuning aid, the evidence speaks for itself, one of the most popular concert pitch chanters(Froment) comes with a rush when you buy it ,and I've seen loads of Quinn chanters with rushes including Paddy Keenans great sounding chanter.
So its nice that Hunter chanters dont need aids ,but nobody really cares !
Its the sound and playability that matters
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Post by PJ » Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:53 pm

krusty wrote:So its nice that Hunter chanters dont need aids ,but nobody really cares !
Some people care. I certainly would like to be able to reed my chanter so that it didn't require a rush. I notice a slight loss of brightness in my D chanters when it is rushed its entire length, and I don't have a particularly keen ear for that sort of thing. I'm guessing that the rush probably interfers some how with the flow of air to cause turbulence or instability or something (I'm really out of my depth here).

Most pipers I know either play in groups or in sessions where they have to blend in (tuning wise) with other instruments but where the tonal qualities of the pipes are not at their most evident. This is particularly true of wide bore concert pitch pipes.

I think that Davy is certainly on to something and in the long term, the sort of precision that he is referring to will come to be highly valued by pipers, but it'll take a while. We probably still don't know enough, about the instrument or about what it can do.
PJ

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David Stephenson
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Post by David Stephenson » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:45 am

First let me say that I in no way hold myself as an ambassador to the trade, nor do I look upon myself as its saviour, I am but a man for the working day, and in my eyes, it was not myself who hit on somethings special as PJ says, it was Peter Hunter who did this over 20 years ago, to which I will be ever gratefull.

I think if you ask the many pipers about tuning issues, you will find that they do care very much about being able to tune their instruments without what I call a get you home kit in the form of tuning aids, but for what ever reasons they have, will not say so, this is why I posted this thread here in the first place, lets call it information awareness.

As for nice sounding chanters with rushes fitted or not, is down to the preference of the player/owner, the playability of an instrument is also down to that person/s, the reed has its place in all of this but does not control the tuning of the instrument entirely, the placings of the tone holes and other vital settings does this part, if the hole needs tape obscuring half of it, tells you something,
the reed is much more adjustable than the hardware, and why I feel it is everyone duty to at least have a go at this part, once one has mastered this art, it becomes blatently obvious to many that there are parts of their instruments that they never knew existed before, and their playing can improve dramatically, no one can teach you this part, it must be chewed swallowed and digested by the piper himself.

I will explain, any maker or player is only as good as his skills and understanding of any given instrument within his range, and any given customer has the ability to become a better player and maker of this instrument than the maker himself, some of which will go on to do some things different than the teacher, what can we call this, improvement, variation, progress,
but what is certain is, times are changing, techniques are changing, sharing knowledge is the key factor in all of this, a practice which we all know was not commomly done in the piping world, and called by some as the uilleann mystery and a negative attitude saying that no body cares is not the way forward.

As uilleann piping advances into the ever so precise tuning world, it will adjust in time to be in tune with it, as I have said before there are several manufacturers who have already acheived this level, wheather or not others will follow is any ones guess, but it would make things much easier for them to get to grips with what is already a difficult instrument to master.

I could go on all day, but it will only bore you more than I have already so I will end things as I see them here, time and tide wait for no man, but we find a way of getting across what is to be said.

Davy.
Last edited by David Stephenson on Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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David Stephenson
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Post by David Stephenson » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:01 am

krusty wrote:Sorry there Davy I misunderstood the question.
The chanter I'm playing doesn't have any tuning aids at the moment ,Krusty
Please could you tell me who's chanter you are playing that doesn't need any aids, this would be very usefull to us.

Davy.
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